Tuesday, November 24, 2009
Why do John 20:17 and Luke 23:43 seem to contradict eachother?
In Luke 23:43, Jesus tells the thief on the cross: "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." In John 20:17, Jesus tells Mary: ""Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." The reason that Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him was because Jesus had not yet ascended into heaven. Mary was still alive, therefore she needed to live out her life on earth. In contrast, the thief was just about to die, therefore he was going immediately to be with Christ, who is God. Although Jesus was the manifestation of God on earth, He is was and still is God. Therefore, He cannot be fully contained in a human body. In some sense, Christ was always in heaven, even when He was on earth.
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Disagree with the post above.
ReplyDelete"In some sense, Christ was always in heaven, even when He was on earth"
This becomes assumptions and speculation which can be very dangerous regarding scriptures. Human beings do this all the time and therefore causes division within the Christian church and that's why we have 3,000+ protestant denominations.
If we are to already have preconceived ideas about life after death and we continue to defend faulty theology, we will never be able to learn scriptures to it's fullest potential. The bible will never seem to harmonize and will ALWAYS seem to CONTRADICT itself and we futile human beings always fail at trying to defend the bible. Trust me the bible does not need any defending. It stands on its own.
Luke 23:43 In the Greek text there are no punctuation. In this verse throughout all different translations the human inspired "COMMA" is misplaced and causes much contradiction. You ask, "how so?"
Let me explain. "...I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
Notice the comma change in the following
"...I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise"
In other words, Jesus is providing the information "today" telling him that in the future he will be with Him in paradise.
None of this things makes sense if we believe all people go to heaven or hell at moment of death. The bible does not teach this. I hear Christians saying all the time, "you will burn in hell FOREVER if you don't believe in Jesus" -false.
We have to understand the STATE OF THE DEAD.
A person dies they literally die. No heaven nor hell until the 1st resurrection for those in Christ, 2nd resurrection for those not in Christ whose name are not found. Hell is not found in the greek translation. Hell in English translation means 2 things. Sheol-place of grave/state of unconsciousness or Gehenna a place where unsaved will be burned up or consumed. Hell is not a place of eternity. The results are eternal meaning once unsaved are being burned with fire and brimstone at the Great White Throne Judgement, their living existence will be annihilated. This is how the old heaven and the old earth are to pass away. Jude 1:9
Isaiah 34:9-10
Jonah 2:6
please don't take the word eternal or forever literally. Read the scriptures in context and compare scripture with scripture.
God bless!
Thank you very much for your response. The above post was written quite a while ago and I won't make any attempt to defend it. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of death and the intermediate state.
DeleteSo, if I understand you correctly, you believe that the dead are not conscious until the resurrection?
I've never seen that take on Luke 23:43 before, but I find that very interesting. I don't know Greek, so I'm not sure if the comma is correctly placed or not... but I find that quite interesting, as it would definitely change the interpretation of the passage.
I'm not sure I agree with the annihilation theory though. Are you saying that unbelievers will be completely annihilated and will have no existence whatsoever? That's hard for me to accept... If we conclude that the biblical passages regarding hell aren't forever, then why should we think that we will be with God forever? Do you see what I'm saying? If we think hell is only temporary, wouldn't we have to conclude that heaven is only temporary?
Moreover, is it really possible for a soul to cease to exist? I have nothing to say about this from the bible, but it does seem like an interesting thing to consider... Can we really ever CEASE to exist?
Either way, both hell and annihilation seem absolutely wretched... I suppose it really doesn't change the necessity of depending on Christ.
Thanks very much for your thoughts,
God bless
Adam was told he would die in the day he ate from this tree he lived to be 930 years in 2 peter 3:8 that a day to the Lord is as a thousand years as a day and a day as a thousand years thus even with the comma its accurate.
ReplyDeleteHi John Paul, thanks for reading and commenting. I see where you're coming from, and agree that we sometimes take the "day" to be our day, when it may not be the case.
DeleteThat being said, I do believe that Adam did die the exact moment he ate the fruit. He died spiritually... physical death followed later. So he really didn't live to be 930 years old. God was right; on the day he ate of it, he would die. And he did, for through one man entered sin into the world.